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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the rendel

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champions

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incident that doesn't involve aliens at

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all it was completely silent

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it comes right over our heads he saw a

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classic flying saucer really standing in

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the clearing he turned over to my father

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and held his hand and he looked in his

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eyes and said we're not alone

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and michael lauck will

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be joining us in a moment for the news

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today's podcast is number 63 with philip

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mantle

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from england uh this will be the second

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time he's on

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he is the guy who cracked the hoax

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of the alien autopsy film he's going to

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be back

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talking to us about his latest book

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which is a fiction

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and i just wanted to let people out

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there know i'm going to a couple of

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conferences coming up

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i'll be attending the experiencers speak

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that's september 6 through the 8th and

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that's in portland maine i actually live

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about

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six miles away from there also i will be

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at the

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first new england ufo conference that

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will take place on saturday

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october 26th and that's in leominster

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massachusetts

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i'm going to be at both of those stan

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friedman and a couple of other people

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going to be there

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robert schroeder who was our guest a

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week or so ago

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he's going to be there um travis walton

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and stephen pierce and all kinds of fun

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people will be at both of those so i

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should get some good recordings

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and it should be a lot of fun so michael

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how are you doing this week good how are

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you

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great this week we have a great deal of

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science news and some sad news for the

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ufo community

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before we start though i'd like to

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remind everyone to visit us on facebook

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for daily updates brought to you by

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peggy

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you can also visit podcastufo.com for

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show notes

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which includes links to media coverage

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of all our stories forums and blogs

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also while you're on your computer

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please drop by itunes and review the

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podcast

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for us it will actually help us show up

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better in the search ratings

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we only have a few uh ratings on there

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at this time

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i i can't remember maybe six or

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something like that and

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we know we get a ton of people listening

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on itunes so we'd really appreciate

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if you do that and speaking of

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participation helping out the show

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we do have a subscribe button on our

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sidebar you can subscribe

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for as low as five dollars per month to

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help us out

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we do have some expenses so it would be

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greatly appreciated

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so for less than a couple of cups of

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coffee a month you can

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help us out a lot and i do want to thank

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the people who are on there now and i

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also want to thank

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each and every listener whether you can

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help us out or not uh we really do

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appreciate you

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the non-news of the area 51 disclosure

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makes the news

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the recent admission by the cia that

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area 51 is real

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but just tests super secret spy planes

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was widely greeted as a kind of non-news

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event

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we of course discussed this last week

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nbc has since posted an article complete

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with video

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covering the recent disclosure which

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includes comments from richard boylan

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alejandro rojas and bob lazar the man

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who put area 51 on the map

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you know bob lazar has been sort of

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stealth like

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himself like spy plane for a number of

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years says he won't do any more

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interviews

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and they actually found him what do you

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know about that michael

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um evidently supposedly as some kind of

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government

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uh contracting company is what i had

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recently heard

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yes and uh yeah it doesn't tend to do

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any of these interviews anymore but i

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guess when nbc shows up you

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you comment right and he's like

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somewhere in the midwest or something

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like that some

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what's wrong with that you're probably

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in cahoots with him i knew it

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wow i just i just nailed that uh no

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comment

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yeah but speaking of bob lazar one of

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lazar's claims was that area 51 had

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alien devices powered by element

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115 which was not found on the periodic

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table

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researchers claimed to create a single

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atom about 10 years ago

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but the results were ruled inconclusive

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because it was only a single atom

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a new team led by dirk rudolph at lund

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university in sweden

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has claimed to have created 30 atoms of

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element 115

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and this time the results look promising

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the element is incredibly unstable

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and remarkably short-lived which does

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little to confirm lazar's claim that the

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u.s government

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had a 500 pound stockpile of the

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substance

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read more about the hunt for element 115

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in the new scientist article linked to

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in our show notes

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it is a very readable short piece for

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the non-scientists

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yeah i guess they call it what

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unobtainium or something like that

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also no that that is i don't know

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maybe somebody calls them that i have

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heard that before this one actually has

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a

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115 so it it's

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it doesn't have an official name yet

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until it gets officially

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uh turned into an element and then i

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think all bets are off i i i don't know

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how the naming process works i

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perhaps rudolph and his team get to to

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name it well

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uh let's pick on bob lazar a little bit

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more because uh

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you know first of all 500 pounds

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uh compared to 30 atoms do you know what

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30 atoms

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is you know and it lasted like

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fractions of a second i mean if you talk

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about atoms

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what is it uh one glass of water has

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more atoms in it than

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all the glasses of water and all the

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oceans of the world or something like

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that i mean

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i mean it's just so hard to fathom it's

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so minut

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and they're talking only 30 atoms were

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made of this

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i guess it is proof that something was

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made though right

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um yes actually i mean that's part of

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the problem

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if you read the article is is that at no

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point can you kind of point to it and

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say

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hey look there's a pile of element 115

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because even those 30 atoms are there so

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quickly

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they basically only measure

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their existence by the the

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refuse their breakdown leaves behind

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yeah

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i had i had a girlfriend like that once

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yeah sorry i think i think that's a

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different podcast

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yeah that's right there are those who

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believe that life here began

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out there biochemist stephen brenner of

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the westheimer institute for science and

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technology believes that his research

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shows that life on earth

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was seeded by meteorites from mars he

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makes the argument that 3 billion years

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ago

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mars was more suited to the development

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of life than earth

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which was low on atmospheric oxygen and

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high on water which was damaging to the

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many building blocks required for early

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life

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you can read more about it through the

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article in our show notes there's no

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proof yet

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that there was actually life on mars for

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sure but there's the face

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there's the face yeah and you know there

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probably was

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mars probably had a magnetosphere at one

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time that probably held the atmosphere

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and water

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in and you know i mean there's definite

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signs of millions or billions of years

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and

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goes

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and don't you think for a minute it

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can't happen to earth

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it could that's right that's why we need

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to colonize everywhere we can

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that's right yeah yeah hey quick pop

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quiz

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that headline do you know what that

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headline was from no

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those were the opening lines of the

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original battlestar galactica narration

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really yes wow speaking of the nerdy

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week

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all right that's awesome speaking of pop

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quiz on that particular link

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there is a 10 question quiz on that

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that's uh about mars

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uh what do you know about mars quiz on

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that and i got

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seven out of ten which really is bad

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it's a c

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yeah that's not bad i always was a c

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student it's

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i mean you're passing yeah all right

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wormholes are the key to time travel

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astrophysicist eric w davis has authored

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a new paper arguing that wormholes are

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the key

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ingredient to time travel and faster

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than light travel

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of course science has yet to actually

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prove the existence of wormholes

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so making the case for time travel by

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wormhole is about as practical at this

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point

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you need for practical time travel is to

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make friends with a benevolent renegade

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time lord with a soft spot for the uk

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read more about it though in the life

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science article we've linked to in our

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show notes

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i was reading that article and

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physicists have actually in fact

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sent muons which is a little tiny

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particle

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into the future did you actually know

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that they've actually done time travel

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there's yeah i mean there is a little

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bit of controversy about it

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but sending things to future is not

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really practically a problem when you

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think about it i mean we're all

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moving into the future it's getting back

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yeah getting back or moving back to

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affect

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the difference i mean to move things in

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the future time bombs theoretically

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if you know philosophically affect the

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future

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well it's not it's not nearly as

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impressive

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it's moving back and forth i i just

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can't wrap my head around all this stuff

287
00:09:03,509 --> 00:09:01,680
you know i think i've plugged this

288
00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:03,519
before and i'll plug it again if if

289
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:04,720
anybody does

290
00:09:08,150 --> 00:09:06,720
want to wrap their head around some of

291
00:09:11,670 --> 00:09:08,160
the science a little better

292
00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:11,680
there is no better way to kind of

293
00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:13,920
grasp the basics of physics than getting

294
00:09:18,150 --> 00:09:14,800
a hold of the

295
00:09:20,150 --> 00:09:18,160
richard feynman lectures

296
00:09:21,430 --> 00:09:20,160
which there are complete sets that are

297
00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:21,440
fairly expensive

298
00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:24,640
but you can get a paperback book

299
00:09:32,230 --> 00:09:28,240
with a cd of lectures for the

300
00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:32,240
the core elements of classical mechanics

301
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:34,480
called five easy pieces and the core

302
00:09:39,509 --> 00:09:36,000
elements of classical

303
00:09:41,829 --> 00:09:39,519
kind of well classical or but the basis

304
00:09:44,550 --> 00:09:41,839
of of more of your astrophysics and your

305
00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:44,560
relatively uh relativity in a book

306
00:09:47,350 --> 00:09:45,200
called six

307
00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:47,360
not so easy pieces but they're they're

308
00:09:51,269 --> 00:09:48,880
just a great introduction from probably

309
00:09:54,230 --> 00:09:51,279
the best physics lecture

310
00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:54,240
ever in america yeah you getting a

311
00:09:57,829 --> 00:09:55,440
commission on that

312
00:09:59,590 --> 00:09:57,839
no i'm not in fact i i'm not even sure

313
00:10:00,150 --> 00:09:59,600
that that anybody makes money off that

314
00:10:02,949 --> 00:10:00,160
anymore

315
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:02,959
uh it was it was done as a as a project

316
00:10:07,990 --> 00:10:04,800
just to preserve his teaching

317
00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:08,000
at one point like 50 years ago and um

318
00:10:11,030 --> 00:10:09,200
they're they're they're great stuff i'm

319
00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:11,040
a big fineman fan yeah doesn't everyone

320
00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:12,640
have a favorite physicist

321
00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:16,240
uh no no no you're gonna tell me you

322
00:10:21,190 --> 00:10:18,560
don't have a favorite economist

323
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:21,200
no now getting back to this article

324
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:22,720
though wormholes

325
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:24,720
you know a very very interesting theory

326
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:27,120
but they they really don't know for sure

327
00:10:30,949 --> 00:10:28,000
if they actually

328
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:30,959
exist you know and if they do they think

329
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:33,360
they might be extremely small

330
00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:35,600
smaller than a person could fit through

331
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:37,600
i mean they have no idea exactly

332
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:40,720
right exactly think like event center of

333
00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:44,240
a black hole small tiny

334
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:48,079
but it doesn't necessarily matter

335
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:50,160
because just because it's tiny doesn't

336
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:52,880
mean it can't be put to practical use

337
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:55,680
if it did and does exist uh if nothing

338
00:10:58,949 --> 00:10:56,720
else

339
00:11:00,069 --> 00:10:58,959
it might be the means to future

340
00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:00,079
communication

341
00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:03,760
for long distance colonies or

342
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:06,240
other civilizations fascinating think

343
00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:07,920
about that seti what if everybody's

344
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:08,800
talking through

345
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:10,560
the wormholes that we can't even prove

346
00:11:14,230 --> 00:11:11,920
exist yeah

347
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:14,240
there you go and finally a bit of sad

348
00:11:18,790 --> 00:11:16,959
news dr jesse marcel jr has passed away

349
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:18,800
at the age of 76.

350
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,600
uh dr jesse marcel jr famous as the son

351
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:23,440
of major jesse marcel

352
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:25,120
passed away this week of an apparent

353
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,720
heart attack dr

354
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,640
marcel maintained that not only was the

355
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:30,720
roswell ufo crash a reality

356
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,279
but his father brought home some debris

357
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,279
it was marcel who described the purplish

358
00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:37,120
i-beams with strange symbols and the

359
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:38,560
foil that would pop back into shape

360
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:40,000
after being folded

361
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:42,399
as an adult jesse marcel jr became a

362
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:44,160
medical doctor serving in the navy and

363
00:11:48,069 --> 00:11:46,079
the montana army national guard

364
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,079
and he even served a year as a flight

365
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:50,800
surgeon in iraq back in 2004.

366
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:52,959
we'll uh cover this more in our blogs

367
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:54,160
this week and i'm sure you have some

368
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:55,440
comments martin

369
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:57,040
yeah i'm glad you're writing a blog

370
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,800
thanks for doing that yep yeah i was i

371
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,800
was in a remote area this

372
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:02,800
this last week and robert hastings sent

373
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:04,800
me an email um telling me about

374
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,880
the passing of jesse i was i was shocked

375
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:10,959
i had asked someone recently actually

376
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:12,560
for his contact info i was going to try

377
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:13,760
to get him on the show

378
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,120
great guy i think he was a solid

379
00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:18,880
person and he actually stood up and told

380
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,440
the truth about what he knew

381
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:23,519
even you know putting his his medical

382
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:24,720
career on the line

383
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:27,360
by speaking about that well not only his

384
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:29,440
medical careers his military career

385
00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:32,480
right yeah you know he i mean he was in

386
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:33,920
the guard for all the time and then got

387
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:36,480
called back to service in 2004 when

388
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:40,720
uh he would have been like 66 67 years

389
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,519
old

390
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:43,279
which even that on its own is something

391
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:44,720
incredible to think about

392
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:47,360
yeah yeah that is something well i don't

393
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,480
want to go out on such a

394
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:50,880
sad note and speaking of medical careers

395
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:51,680
and all that

396
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,279
this gives me a great opportunity to

397
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,440
pick on dr steven greer again

398
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:57,920
are are you ready for this one michael

399
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:58,880
yes you know

400
00:13:01,829 --> 00:13:00,240
he's going to send his bodyguard after

401
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,839
you i know it's going to happen sooner

402
00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:02,959
or later

403
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:05,920
uh well you know he gave up his his

404
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:06,959
practice to find

405
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:10,399
baby aliens and uh channel overflying

406
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:11,920
ets and all that stuff

407
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,240
well recently while he was in australia

408
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:18,560
some of the aussie witnesses reported

409
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:20,000
hanging with him

410
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:23,360
whilst he was channeling uh these ets

411
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,320
and aliens

412
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:26,639
and they said that he was doing this

413
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:27,839
channeling in a real

414
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:30,639
low voice using a french accent what do

415
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,240
you think about that michael

416
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:34,320
well i think the zeta reticuli accident

417
00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:35,440
is often

418
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:39,279
mistaken for a parisian dialect

419
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,959
is that what it is i was thinking maybe

420
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,800
he watched a little too much of saturday

421
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:44,000
night live with the

422
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,279
conehead so they always said they were

423
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,279
from france from france exactly

424
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:49,760
yeah maybe that's it i don't know but

425
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:50,880
anyway thanks so much

426
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,639
you know we went really long this time

427
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:54,160
we had a long news session

428
00:14:14,829 --> 00:13:56,000
all right thank you and i will talk to

429
00:14:14,839 --> 00:15:44,150
so

430
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:46,389
i'm on skype with philip how are you

431
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:47,440
phillip

432
00:15:51,189 --> 00:15:49,040
i'm fine thank you very much martin a

433
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:51,199
little bit warm here in england but uh

434
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:53,040
i'm absolutely hunky-dory

435
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,480
all right well it's great to have you

436
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:56,560
back on i really enjoyed our last talk i

437
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:57,680
believe it was uh

438
00:16:00,870 --> 00:16:00,480
probably over a year ago but now you

439
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:00,880
have

440
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:03,120
a book that you're just you're just

441
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,880
launching here can you talk about that

442
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:06,880
it's a fiction first of all

443
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,720
that's right martin you know i in in the

444
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:10,800
past i've written or co-authored a

445
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,360
number of non-fiction books

446
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,399
uh so this is my uh my my first attempt

447
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,160
at a work of fiction

448
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,399
it's staying in the same subject matter

449
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:22,560
of you know ufos

450
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,440
uh haven't strayed away from that um but

451
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:27,759
it's an alien abduction novel

452
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:29,600
uh the title is called once upon a

453
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,199
missing time

454
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:33,120
and it's based in the uk back in the

455
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:34,639
1990s

456
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,040
and uh you know it's it's literally come

457
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:38,959
out uh just a few days ago as

458
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:41,519
as we speak now it's out on richard

459
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,959
dolan press i didn't even

460
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:45,040
i didn't even know there was such a

461
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:46,639
thing actually

462
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:48,560
yeah well richard um started off i

463
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:50,480
believe self-publishing his own

464
00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:53,519
um material his own books and

465
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:56,320
um you know looked at you know

466
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:58,320
publishing as a as a way of earning a

467
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:59,040
living

468
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:00,639
because a lot of you know authors in

469
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:02,399
this field martin they they find it

470
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:03,279
difficult to

471
00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:06,079
be accepted by inverted commas the

472
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,240
conventional publishers it's been very

473
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,880
difficult for a lot of us down the years

474
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:12,640
so uh you know richard knows the

475
00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:14,160
marketplace

476
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,240
knows a lot of the people personally i

477
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:18,319
mean i've i've met richard

478
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:21,039
so he decided to to set up his own small

479
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,160
publishing company

480
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:24,319
it's only got a you know small stable of

481
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:25,919
authors at the moment but

482
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:28,720
it is expanding and um you know i'm very

483
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:30,000
grateful to him and

484
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:32,000
it looks like he's uh he's doing well

485
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:33,520
and i know you know i'm very pleased for

486
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:34,240
him

487
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,320
well first of all i want to say i i love

488
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,760
the title to the book that

489
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:39,919
that's really catchy that's really a fun

490
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:40,799
title

491
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,000
and can you basically talk about the

492
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:46,480
the uh synopsis of the book absolutely

493
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:47,520
martin i mean

494
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:50,080
the the title is a play on words i mean

495
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:50,559
you know

496
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:52,960
the sort of phrase missing time is

497
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:55,039
synonymous with the alien abductions the

498
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:56,320
close encounters

499
00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:59,360
so it's an expansion of that really now

500
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:01,919
my first work of non-fiction was

501
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:04,640
published back in 1994

502
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:06,000
and that was a book called without

503
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:08,960
consent and that book was all about

504
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,600
you know alien abduction accounts and

505
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:13,200
and missing time cases

506
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:15,120
purely from here in the united kingdom

507
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,080
nowhere else just here in the uk

508
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:20,400
and i still have all the files i mean

509
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:22,559
this was pre-internet days you know no

510
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:23,360
email and

511
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,960
then things of that nature when i did

512
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:26,640
all this research

513
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:28,960
and at the time i i i traveled the

514
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:29,840
length and breadth

515
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:32,640
of of the uk interviewing people face to

516
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:33,600
face

517
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:36,160
also obtaining you know historical files

518
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:37,520
you know cases from

519
00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:40,799
the 1950s and so on and that

520
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,320
that turned into the non-fiction book

521
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:44,559
without consent now at that time there

522
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:45,520
was still

523
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:48,640
probably still is martin a lot of um

524
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,000
ridicule attached to the subject stigma

525
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:54,640
but i found in the in the 90s that that

526
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:56,640
started to change a little bit i think

527
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:57,360
you know

528
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:59,679
people getting involved like the like dr

529
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:01,039
john mack

530
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:04,960
and um even now um uh nick pope from the

531
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:06,320
minister of defense

532
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,240
and tv shows like the x-files i think

533
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,000
they helped uh you know

534
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:12,240
popularize and give the the subject

535
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,840
matter an area of credibility if you

536
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:14,960
like

537
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,240
and um so the idea was in my head

538
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,240
for whatever reason to to to write a

539
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,320
book of fiction

540
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,360
but based in in fact martin you know

541
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,760
um drawing on all the interviews i've

542
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,440
done drawing all the files that

543
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:31,520
i have you know literally sat next to me

544
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,520
here in my filing cabinet

545
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:35,760
and all the people in it you know the

546
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:38,080
ufo researchers you know that

547
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:40,640
and so on are all based on real people

548
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:42,400
sadly one or two of them are no longer

549
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:43,200
with us but

550
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:45,440
uh same with the abductees it's not

551
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:48,000
based on any one particular account

552
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,400
it's more of an amalgamation of all

553
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:52,320
these people i interviewed

554
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:55,679
um for example it's quite an emotional

555
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,960
uh book there's a lot of you know um

556
00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:01,360
angst and trauma in it if you like and

557
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:03,039
that's based on a lady that

558
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,720
that i interviewed many times she's

559
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,640
called rosalind reynolds

560
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:08,240
you know people will never have heard of

561
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,400
rosalind she's not on the lecture

562
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:11,919
circuit or anything like that

563
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:14,640
she lives in lincolnshire here in the uk

564
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,039
but

565
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:17,679
uh you know she she talked about the the

566
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,400
uh

567
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:20,320
the feeling of of helplessness who do

568
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:21,679
you turn to when when this kind of

569
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:23,120
things happen i mean literally who

570
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,559
who do you who do you go to and um

571
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,320
so i turned all this into a fictional

572
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,039
family it's it's the morrisons

573
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:32,880
uh it's a man and his wife they live in

574
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,159
a small

575
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:37,200
rural setting here in in the county

576
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:39,039
where i live in in yorkshire although

577
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:40,240
the north part of it

578
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,280
they have a young daughter 13 year old

579
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,840
you know alan morrison is a is a teacher

580
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:47,200
at the local high school

581
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:49,200
he's a good teacher but as try as he's

582
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:50,480
as hard as he can

583
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,320
he can't fit into that the teaching

584
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:53,760
profession he's

585
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:57,360
his wife pamela he's a social worker

586
00:21:01,270 --> 00:21:00,320
you know they're both overworked

587
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:01,280
underpaid

588
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,000
highly stressed as it is when when this

589
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,080
close encounter happens

590
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:08,799
so whilst we we look at what happens to

591
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:11,039
them and the way it unfolds

592
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:13,840
the main theme of the of of the book is

593
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:16,480
how they try and deal with it who do you

594
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,280
turn to

595
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,600
how do you cope with such an experience

596
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:21,600
uh and the stresses and strains

597
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:25,120
it it it causes in the already fraught

598
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,480
relationship

599
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,559
uh i mean for example martin you know

600
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:31,200
you know i i i spoke to many people and

601
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:33,280
i said well why why have you come to me

602
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:35,360
with with the you know this account and

603
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,640
this will philip you know

604
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:38,880
i first told my family they didn't know

605
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:39,760
what to do

606
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:42,080
i went to my doctor he prescribed me

607
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:42,880
pills

608
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:45,919
so who do i turn to and this is also

609
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:48,400
reflected in the storyline of the book

610
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,280
and that's how

611
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:51,600
you know they first go to their family

612
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,679
end up you know so kind of reluctantly

613
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:55,760
speaking to the ufo research

614
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:59,440
community and um you know and it unfolds

615
00:22:03,029 --> 00:22:00,320
that you know as

616
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:03,039
as as the story goes along and uh so

617
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,000
it's based

618
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:06,400
on factual accounts but it's nonetheless

619
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,760
a fictional story

620
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,520
and we're also trying to emphasize

621
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,080
martin again this was borne out by my

622
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:15,039
research that whatever the abduction

623
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,960
phenomenon is and i don't pretend to

624
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:18,240
have the answers

625
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:21,280
this book doesn't provide any answers it

626
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:21,840
is

627
00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:24,000
completely random it happens to people

628
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:25,840
in all walks of life

629
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:28,480
you know all over the world any place

630
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:29,440
anywhere

631
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:31,679
uh despite what the skeptics might have

632
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,720
us believe that it's

633
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:34,559
it's some lunatic running around the

634
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:36,400
hill somewhere that it only happens to

635
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:37,600
be in the middle of nowhere

636
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,799
that is not true and most if not all of

637
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,880
the abductees are as bewildered as the

638
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:45,200
rest of us as to as to what has happened

639
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:47,840
you know and and i try and paint that

640
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:49,360
picture in

641
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,480
in once upon a missing time you know

642
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,159
i was reading a little bit about this

643
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:56,159
book and i imagine that

644
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:58,640
it really can tear people apart their

645
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:59,679
families apart

646
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:00,960
have you seen a lot of that in your

647
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:03,200
research absolutely again i mentioned a

648
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:04,559
lady there called rosalind

649
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:06,559
i mean put a great strain on her

650
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,240
relationship at the time

651
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:10,080
and the relationship you know finally

652
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:11,440
came to an end

653
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:14,480
so from an experiences point of view

654
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:16,960
yes it can have a you know a tremendous

655
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:18,080
effect on their

656
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:19,760
their family life their everyday life

657
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:21,120
their work life

658
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:24,240
you know right and i also found from

659
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,480
my own experience as a ufo researcher

660
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:30,159
that from a researcher's point of view

661
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:32,000
it can also have an effect

662
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,720
on your family life and your work life

663
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:36,000
you may not always realize

664
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:37,840
that that's happening become you know so

665
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:39,360
deeply involved in

666
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:42,480
in this subject that um you know

667
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,720
before you before you know it martin it

668
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:46,880
has has an effect well that happened to

669
00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,559
me personally you know so that's not

670
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,320
speaking in the third person

671
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:52,960
i know that from first-hand experience

672
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:53,840
um but you know

673
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:56,559
no two abductees and no two accounts are

674
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:58,240
the same they all deal with it in in

675
00:24:03,430 --> 00:23:59,039
their own

676
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,440
a very positive experience

677
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,760
you know but um it can cause an awful

678
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:07,279
lot of confusion

679
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:09,120
again there's one lady who's not

680
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:11,039
mentioned in the book by name

681
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:12,880
uh and in my original book without

682
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:14,640
consent she's named but i give her a

683
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:15,760
different name

684
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:18,159
and and she had a lifetime of

685
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,600
experiences martin and

686
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:21,360
you know her first instance was to go

687
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,679
and tell her family

688
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:25,760
they didn't know what to do i mean so

689
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:27,520
they sent her to the doctor

690
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,840
and this was a period in england when if

691
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:31,360
a housewife went to the doctor

692
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:32,480
complaining of

693
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:34,159
of certain ailments they were given

694
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,919
tranquilizers you know no matter what

695
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:36,799
and that's what

696
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:39,120
she was given and of course it didn't do

697
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,559
any good at all

698
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,880
so she threw them in the bin and then

699
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:44,480
just quite by chance

700
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:47,279
she saw you know my name in a local

701
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,799
newspaper article

702
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,640
and contacted me but these things had

703
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:52,240
already been ongoing for a number of

704
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:53,120
years

705
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,559
and she was just happy i used that word

706
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:58,080
kind of loosely she was pleased that she

707
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:59,600
just had somebody that would sit down

708
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:00,640
and listen

709
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,120
without ridicule without laughing

710
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,279
without passing judgment

711
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:07,360
and um you know a lot of the abductees

712
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:09,279
certainly back then found that

713
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:12,000
of a great help and and some of them set

714
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:13,679
up their own support groups and

715
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,200
some of those are still going to this

716
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:17,760
day so it has all kinds of effects

717
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:18,559
martin but

718
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:20,400
uh and some of those are outlined in the

719
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,559
book couldn't put everything in there

720
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:24,960
um because again you know no two people

721
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:26,720
react uh the same way

722
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:29,360
but we try to emphasize exactly you know

723
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:30,799
what can happen

724
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:33,360
in some circumstances earlier off mike

725
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:34,720
we were talking about

726
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:37,360
how much work writing a book is and

727
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:38,960
especially when you're trying to do

728
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:40,559
you know the other part of your life

729
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,000
like a job or something like

730
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:45,120
that and so i'm in the antiques and arts

731
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:45,760
field

732
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:48,720
and a few people have crossed over that

733
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:49,760
have found my name

734
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,520
on this podcast and one of them actually

735
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:55,200
has an abduction account they want to

736
00:25:59,830 --> 00:25:57,279
talk to me about i'm pretty interested

737
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,840
in talking about that it seems to me

738
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:01,200
that there's a lot more

739
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:03,279
accounts of abductions in the united

740
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:04,880
states than

741
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,559
about anywhere else is there quite a bit

742
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,919
going on in the uk

743
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:09,520
yeah i think that's a fair comment

744
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:11,039
martin i think um

745
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,480
again you know we forget that the united

746
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:15,600
states and britain are

747
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:17,919
are foreign countries we may share a

748
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:19,360
common language

749
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:22,480
but um our culture is is is very

750
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:25,360
very different indeed you know i think

751
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:26,640
in general

752
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:30,400
um the brits are more reserved uh

753
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,080
race if you want to use that word and um

754
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:36,720
you know they tend to keep things closer

755
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:38,240
to the chest than perhaps they do in the

756
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,600
united states

757
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:41,679
uh that's been my experience anyway i

758
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,080
know it's a generalization

759
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:46,400
but uh like i said when i started my

760
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,400
abduction research back in in the in the

761
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:50,480
late 1980s

762
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:53,120
i could think of you know maybe a couple

763
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:54,240
of handful of

764
00:26:58,950 --> 00:26:57,600
of known abductees here in the uk

765
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,960
things that had already been talked

766
00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:00,480
about and few that have been published

767
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:01,919
there wasn't by any means

768
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:05,919
uh a lot but as as the 80s and the 90s

769
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:06,640
progressed

770
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:09,120
and like people like john mark and nick

771
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:10,159
pope

772
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:12,320
went into the public domain i think he

773
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:13,840
helped bring people

774
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,120
um you know forward books like communion

775
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:19,760
also helped and other publications

776
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:22,159
so i just think it's because our

777
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:23,919
cultures are quite different martian but

778
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:24,320
now

779
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,360
it's it's it's a common subject here

780
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,200
more people are willing to go on the

781
00:27:34,149 --> 00:27:31,440
record but it's still a stigma

782
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:34,159
in certain circles but it's still fear

783
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:35,200
and ridicule

784
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:37,120
but i don't think that's any way as bad

785
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:39,039
as it used to be

786
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,399
and uh that you know by by writing books

787
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,159
like this

788
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,559
it shows i think uh the the subject

789
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:48,399
matter in in the in the right or

790
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:49,919
the right vein i know it's a work of

791
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:52,000
fiction but it shows these were

792
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:54,880
just ordinary people about their working

793
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:55,440
life

794
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:59,120
when this most bizarre of ex you know

795
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,640
experience has happened to them they

796
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,240
don't know what it was

797
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,399
they're looking for answers themselves

798
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,000
and that's often the case you know if

799
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:07,840
you speak to many abductees martin

800
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,640
they'll say well

801
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,720
you know i was out walking my dog you

802
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:12,640
know i was driving to work

803
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:14,320
i was you know picking the kids up from

804
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:16,960
school or whatever it was when this

805
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,600
thing happened and and they're looking

806
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,520
to people like us but answers they may

807
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,279
have already been elsewhere

808
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:25,440
to try and figure it out some people

809
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:27,919
prepare you know prefer to keep their

810
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:30,480
their names to themselves which is fine

811
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:32,000
there's no problem with that

812
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,919
and one others think that it's important

813
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,760
that they should speak out

814
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:38,080
and i've come across that several kinds

815
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,440
you know that they know that there could

816
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:41,120
be a little bit of ridicule

817
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:43,120
you know a bit of you know people making

818
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,720
fun of them that kind of thing but for

819
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:46,320
whatever reason

820
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:49,520
they think no this is important you know

821
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,880
i'm not saying i've been abducted by

822
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:52,720
aliens i'm just saying this most bizarre

823
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:53,840
thing happened to me

824
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,200
and the only way we're ever going to

825
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,440
find out what it is is by talking about

826
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,440
it in the open you know speaking to

827
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,440
others i've had similar experiences

828
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,840
and maybe you know i i have one of the

829
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:05,760
answers to the puzzle maybe i don't you

830
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,960
know but uh

831
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:08,720
so i think it's changed down the years

832
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:10,080
and i think you know things like the

833
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:10,880
internet

834
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:13,679
and and various tv shows and movies have

835
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,399
helped

836
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,720
you know like when i started in in this

837
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,240
field there was no internet it just

838
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,640
did not exist certainly no skype and

839
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,240
home computers marching

840
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:24,720
you know i mean it was it was it was on

841
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:26,799
the phone and in the car and

842
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:28,399
you know a letter and things of that

843
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:29,919
nature um

844
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,159
so that's why i set the uh you know the

845
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:34,480
book in in 1990

846
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:36,640
it was a cha it's a time of change here

847
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:37,520
in britain in

848
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:41,520
in in 1990 mrs thatcher uh i just left

849
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:42,320
office

850
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,919
i think people around the world know

851
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:45,520
know who mrs thatcher was

852
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:49,120
she'd just been replaced by john major

853
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,799
so it was a time of change here in

854
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:52,240
britain as well so

855
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,840
it just kind of fit it was a much

856
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,600
simpler age you know there wasn't no

857
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:57,200
digital television

858
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:00,159
we still had video cameras you know

859
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,919
cassette tape recorders

860
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:04,080
the digital age hadn't wasn't upon us

861
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:06,080
there was no digital cameras

862
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:10,399
um so and i set it in that context um

863
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:12,000
you know it was a simpler time i know

864
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:13,600
not going it's not too simple

865
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:16,799
it was still a modern era but um again

866
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:18,720
the the place although it's a fictional

867
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,159
village that i set it in

868
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,799
in north yorkshire there was an area in

869
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:24,320
that particular region of north

870
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:25,120
yorkshire that

871
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:26,720
we have the yorkshire dales national

872
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:28,799
park for any of your listeners

873
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:31,360
coming over it's a beautiful place but

874
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,799
we had all kinds of

875
00:30:36,149 --> 00:30:34,880
ufo sightings there i mean we were

876
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,159
absolutely inundated

877
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:38,159
with them including you know the close

878
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:39,279
encounter type

879
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:41,840
scenarios as well so whilst it's a

880
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,279
fictional village name

881
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,520
i have set it in an area that had this

882
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:47,360
kind of activity going on

883
00:30:50,549 --> 00:30:50,159
at that time so it kind of fits there as

884
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:50,559
well

885
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,080
now you said that for the most part

886
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:54,159
england has kind of loosened up and

887
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:56,480
it's not so conservative on the subject

888
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:57,840
as it used to be

889
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,919
have you noticed people coming forward

890
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:01,919
that have been suppressing this for many

891
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:02,480
years

892
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:05,120
absolutely i mean they said i you know

893
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:06,960
even just recently not not about just

894
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:08,880
abductions but about certain types of

895
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,120
ufo sightings in general

896
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:12,880
to say you know i've never spoke to

897
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:14,320
anybody about this

898
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:16,559
and there may it may be just one thing

899
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:18,240
that they read or they see

900
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,880
somewhere that that acts as a trigger

901
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:22,640
and they think well now's the time i

902
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:24,159
should tell somebody

903
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,559
and you find that in many many cases

904
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,559
that even some of the well-known cases

905
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:30,399
like roswell for example marching you

906
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,519
know there's still

907
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,600
you know every elderly gentleman who

908
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:35,600
maybe former military

909
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:38,399
you know 60 70 years later come forward

910
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,679
and said well i've never really told

911
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,360
anybody about this

912
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,679
and um but they're made just something

913
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:45,679
that that uh

914
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:47,279
likes to touch paper and then they think

915
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:49,519
well you know now is the time

916
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,360
you know maybe a newspaper article it

917
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:54,480
may be a tv documenting they think well

918
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,080
i didn't really know an awful lot about

919
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:58,080
this i thought i was the only one

920
00:32:01,430 --> 00:32:00,159
and and but now i'm no i'm not and and

921
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:01,440
they speak up

922
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:03,279
and uh you know we try and encourage

923
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:05,440
that without without going over the top

924
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:06,960
if they want to remain you know

925
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:09,200
incognito that's fine there's no problem

926
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:10,240
with that at all

927
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:13,200
so that happens fairly regularly however

928
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:14,960
you also have the other side of the coin

929
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,760
martin

930
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:17,600
and people will say well yeah put my

931
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:19,519
name on the record i don't know what

932
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,640
this was

933
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:22,880
i know what it wasn't and that's people

934
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,559
from all walks of life and including

935
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:26,159
professional people and they said well i

936
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:27,600
don't care you know

937
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:30,240
uh you know this is important and people

938
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:31,679
should know about this

939
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:33,840
and um you know so we get quite a

940
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,880
mixture but

941
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:36,480
you know people do keep it to themselves

942
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,039
martin yes i can only imagine

943
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,159
what an experience would be like and i

944
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:45,360
i would just feel as though i was going

945
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,080
crazy

946
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:48,480
i can't imagine feeling other any other

947
00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:49,919
way about that

948
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,399
um do you is that is that like a common

949
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:54,240
theme when people come forward

950
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,720
oh yeah i mean one of the ladies who who

951
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:58,399
i interviewed many many times

952
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:01,600
a lady called jane jane was a housewife

953
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:05,039
with a a young child and um

954
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,880
she had a number of encounters martin it

955
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:08,080
wasn't just a one-off

956
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:12,080
from the age of 16 onwards and um

957
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,320
she said i know her first reaction was i

958
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:15,679
must be going nuts

959
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:17,600
i really must be she knew nothing about

960
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:18,880
the subject

961
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:21,919
um you know she's just an ordinary woman

962
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,960
in an ordinary village and you know what

963
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:26,880
she thought i must be going off my head

964
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:30,080
i really must so she went to

965
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,919
the doctors and you know

966
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:35,679
she wasn't mad he wasn't suffering from

967
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,279
delusion

968
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,440
jumping forward in time you know it was

969
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:41,600
about seven years later when when i

970
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:44,960
i first met jane um

971
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,559
and the encounters were still ongoing

972
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:51,120
and we talked about it we we recorded as

973
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:51,600
many

974
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,440
much of the information as we could and

975
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,159
i took it to see a a psychologist

976
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,159
who was very interested in the the

977
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:00,159
abduction subject

978
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:03,440
and i left uh jane and

979
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:06,080
and this particular doctor together for

980
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,760
several hours

981
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:09,520
he had a long chat was all pre-arranged

982
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:12,240
jane was you know very cooperative

983
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:14,000
and uh he came back and he said well

984
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,919
philip you know

985
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,200
i don't know what's happened to this

986
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,359
young lady but i know i know

987
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:21,440
for certain she's not delusional she's

988
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:22,720
not psychotic

989
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:25,040
she's not schizophrenic et cetera et

990
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:26,320
cetera et cetera in other words

991
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:29,200
he gave it a clean bill of mental health

992
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,159
and

993
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,159
he was shortly coming up for retirement

994
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:34,159
worked at a huge university here in the

995
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,359
north of england

996
00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:37,520
and he wanted to get involved more once

997
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:39,200
he'd retired he didn't mind putting his

998
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,240
name to it

999
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:42,079
but sadly you know when he retired he

1000
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:43,359
took hillary and and

1001
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,480
and wasn't able to fulfill that so

1002
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,159
you know she literally thought she was

1003
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,000
going off off her head

1004
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:53,040
but uh the the doctor in question

1005
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:54,800
reassured her and said well i don't know

1006
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:56,000
what's happening to you but you're not

1007
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:57,359
going you're not going out of your mind

1008
00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:58,320
you're not mad

1009
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:01,040
so on one hand she was she was pleased

1010
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:01,760
with that

1011
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:03,040
but on the other hand she thought well

1012
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,160
it would have been an end she would have

1013
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:06,320
been an explanation if i hadn't been mad

1014
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:07,680
so i don't i don't know which

1015
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:09,760
explanation she was happiest with but

1016
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:12,160
uh it kind of reassured her in a way but

1017
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,880
uh yeah

1018
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:14,800
it is it is a theme that crops up now

1019
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:16,720
and again i would imagine so and i think

1020
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,680
this is one of the

1021
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:20,000
reasons that drew dr mack into this

1022
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:21,119
whole thing is that

1023
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:23,119
he was finding out that these people

1024
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,160
weren't crazy

1025
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:26,079
and you know that just made him dig

1026
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:28,000
deeper and deeper well absolutely martin

1027
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,440
i mean i met john mack

1028
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,680
you know several times and he he read my

1029
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:34,000
first book without consent

1030
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:35,440
and we had a you know a few

1031
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:37,520
conversations when we met

1032
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:41,359
up and um you know the skeptics again or

1033
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:42,960
certain skeptics would have us believe

1034
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,480
that these people are all

1035
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,560
you know fruitcakes or they're looking

1036
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:48,640
to earn a quick book or they want some

1037
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:49,520
kind of

1038
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,680
attention seeking and let's be honest

1039
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:53,200
there are one or two like that

1040
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:57,760
you know circles that collect stamps

1041
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:00,720
you know you know they're in all fields

1042
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:02,480
you know this field is no different from

1043
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:03,280
that

1044
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:06,960
but by and large these are your everyday

1045
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:09,839
ordinary member of the public that going

1046
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,839
about their daily tasks

1047
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:14,160
they have little or no interest in this

1048
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:14,880
subject

1049
00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:17,440
beforehand and it comes to them like a

1050
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:19,040
bolt out of the blue

1051
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:21,200
and and the you know think about it

1052
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:22,640
yourself martin if you knew nothing

1053
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,760
about this subject

1054
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:25,200
and a lot of them don't apart from maybe

1055
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,800
a passing bit of this and a bit of that

1056
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:30,880
and this kind of thing happens what do

1057
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,280
you do who do you turn to

1058
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,440
you know that isn't a department you can

1059
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,359
go and ring if you break your leg you go

1060
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:39,280
to the er

1061
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,200
you know there isn't there isn't an

1062
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,920
alien abduction er you can go to

1063
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:45,599
you know there isn't any one central

1064
00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,119
place who do you turn to

1065
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,240
and again i use that theme in

1066
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:52,880
once upon a missing time um the the wife

1067
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:55,599
pamela her father is a retired police

1068
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:56,640
officer

1069
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:59,680
so you know they tell him but he he's

1070
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,000
seen

1071
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,720
everything in his time as a police

1072
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:04,320
officer but he never heard of this

1073
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:05,920
before and he just

1074
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:10,079
finds it a joke so it was of no use to

1075
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:10,880
him

1076
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:13,040
but to them whatsoever to to speak to

1077
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,800
him about it and i can understand that

1078
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:16,880
in some instance and i really can't

1079
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:19,119
i mean again you know you put yourself

1080
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:19,920
in

1081
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,720
his shoes i can understand it i'm not

1082
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:23,920
saying it's right or wrong but i can

1083
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,320
understand certain people's reactions

1084
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:29,200
it is a a bizarre subject in its own

1085
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:30,400
right

1086
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,240
but uh i think it's one that's gained a

1087
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,320
little bit of credence and credibility

1088
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,880
with more and more um

1089
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,480
you know professional people becoming

1090
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:40,400
involved both out in the open and behind

1091
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,599
the scenes

1092
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:43,839
and uh again you know that's emphasized

1093
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:46,880
in in in the book we have a a doctor

1094
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:49,359
who becomes involved as a psychologist

1095
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:51,359
he's quite skeptical

1096
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:54,720
but nonetheless he becomes involved and

1097
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:57,839
you know tries tries to assist it's not

1098
00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:59,920
particularly based on on dr mack or

1099
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,280
anyone like that it's it's

1100
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:03,440
again an amalgamation of many different

1101
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:04,560
people

1102
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:08,320
that are willing to help not just the

1103
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:09,280
genuine

1104
00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:11,119
ufo researcher there are professionals

1105
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:12,400
as well that will actually take it

1106
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,280
seriously

1107
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,119
well yeah i mean like i said the the the

1108
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:17,440
um the doctor who with whom i was going

1109
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:17,760
to

1110
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:22,320
seriously he was open-minded he didn't

1111
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:22,960
have any

1112
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,000
um opinions one way or the other

1113
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:28,079
and he found it extremely intriguing he

1114
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:29,200
was interested in

1115
00:38:34,390 --> 00:38:32,640
in the paranormal in general and um

1116
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:34,400
you know when i spoke to to jay at

1117
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:36,480
length and found out she's you know

1118
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,920
no disrespect to jane she wasn't um

1119
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:42,320
a particularly hugely intelligent woman

1120
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:43,839
she wasn't stupid

1121
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:46,960
she was just an average lady um you know

1122
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:47,680
was not

1123
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,960
into the ufo literature at all and not

1124
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,640
only that what was what was what was

1125
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:54,079
intriguing about some of the things that

1126
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,359
jane told us

1127
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:58,000
she was talking about what we might call

1128
00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:00,000
phantom pregnancies

1129
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:01,680
but not with a husband with with these

1130
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:03,920
otherworldly beings

1131
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:06,079
and that was right pretty much unknown

1132
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:07,440
at the time that the only

1133
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:09,440
chap writing about it at the time was

1134
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:11,200
was the late bud hopkins

1135
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:14,480
in new york um you could only read it in

1136
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:16,560
one or two publications but hadn't

1137
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:18,960
you know uh published his books with

1138
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:19,599
this you know

1139
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:22,160
he called him the smart baby dreams and

1140
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:24,000
i i communicated with but i knew him

1141
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:25,760
quite well i sent him transcripts of my

1142
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:27,440
interviews with jane and he would come

1143
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:28,720
back with suggestions for

1144
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,680
for other sort of questions so how could

1145
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:33,680
this you know this housewife here in

1146
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:37,280
in in the uk repeat the same kind of

1147
00:39:41,589 --> 00:39:38,480
things that was coming

1148
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:41,599
to bud from abductees in the us when she

1149
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:42,400
hadn't read it

1150
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:46,000
it wasn't on the tv you know so

1151
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:47,599
again it was intriguing it was very

1152
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,119
intriguing and uh

1153
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:51,119
you know a lot of of jane's experience

1154
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:52,560
has never been published he's still sat

1155
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:54,000
in a file here with me

1156
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,119
i published some of it and uh

1157
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,280
i i think you know she she she features

1158
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:01,440
in part in in the book as well in

1159
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:04,480
in little bits and pieces so um

1160
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:07,119
you know even if you're a skeptic martin

1161
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:09,119
it's still an intriguing puzzling

1162
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:10,000
subject i i

1163
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:12,240
have to be honest absolutely and i know

1164
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,560
you're you're rather cautious of naming

1165
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:16,240
what exactly is going on in these

1166
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:18,640
abductions but if you had to guess

1167
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,040
what would your guess be i couldn't

1168
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:22,880
guess much and i honestly couldn't guess

1169
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,839
i'll give you the reason why again going

1170
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:27,599
back a few years

1171
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:30,720
i got a small number of abductees and

1172
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:33,680
and i put it to them but in mind these

1173
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:34,240
are people

1174
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:37,200
that you know had this experience not me

1175
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:38,240
and i asked them

1176
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:41,359
that very same question what do you

1177
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:44,480
think has happened to you was it

1178
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:47,680
80 you know was it extraterrestrials

1179
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:49,119
from

1180
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,640
you know wherever get in here however

1181
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:54,480
you know another dimension spaceships

1182
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,160
whatever you want to call it

1183
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,560
was it some something some kind of

1184
00:41:01,670 --> 00:41:00,000
spiritual experience

1185
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,680
was it some kind of psychological

1186
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,599
experience

1187
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,520
a couple said definitely i i believe

1188
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,359
this was you know beings from another

1189
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,720
world

1190
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:10,560
there were a couple of ladies who said

1191
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:11,839
no phillip you know

1192
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:15,680
i think this was to me some kind of

1193
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:19,119
spiritual experience it awakened things

1194
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:20,079
in me it was like an

1195
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,760
awakening and um but the others martin

1196
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:25,359
just kind of scratched their heads and

1197
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:26,319
said look philip i

1198
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:29,119
really don't know i have no idea what

1199
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:30,079
the nature

1200
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,640
and the origin of these experiences were

1201
00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:34,880
all i can tell you is what happened

1202
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:38,240
what i remember and i i put to one

1203
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,160
gentleman

1204
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:43,040
it's a case from back in the late 1970s

1205
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:43,520
here

1206
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:46,880
in the uk it's called john day and

1207
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:50,560
i said to john was john was this a real

1208
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:53,040
physical you know nuts and bolts

1209
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:54,720
experience

1210
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:57,760
and he said phillip you know not only

1211
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:00,319
can i not put it into words

1212
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:03,200
but we as a as a as a species don't have

1213
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:03,520
the

1214
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:08,160
experience he says but

1215
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:09,920
the best way i can explain it is if you

1216
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,160
went to a movie set

1217
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:14,640
you can look at it you can touch it you

1218
00:42:18,870 --> 00:42:15,680
can feel it

1219
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:18,880
it's solid we look behind it

1220
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:21,920
and it's just an illusion and he left it

1221
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:23,760
at that so you can read into that what

1222
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:24,960
you want martin

1223
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:27,119
because you know i still try and figure

1224
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:29,040
that out myself and it's a few years

1225
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:30,160
since i interviewed

1226
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:33,520
john day so now one hand it you know

1227
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:36,079
it is a a physical thing but on the

1228
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:36,640
other hand

1229
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:39,839
it's some kind of illusion camouflage

1230
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:41,440
call it what you will

1231
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:44,240
and uh i thanked john for that and you

1232
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:45,760
know he's left me scratching my head for

1233
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:46,240
me

1234
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,400
so even the abductees themselves

1235
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:53,520
are not entirely sure john martin so

1236
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:56,480
and john day especially so uh you know

1237
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,040
i'm not

1238
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:59,200
to hazard a guest i really am you

1239
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:00,240
probably know this but

1240
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:03,119
denise stoner and kathleen martin wrote

1241
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:04,640
a book and they also

1242
00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:07,599
in that book has a list of commonalities

1243
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:08,560
have you ever

1244
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:09,920
looked through the people you've

1245
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:12,079
interviewed to see what was common in

1246
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:13,520
their stories i think one of

1247
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:16,400
the commonalities we did come across and

1248
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:17,359
it's with it was

1249
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:20,160
didn't really have to look that hard and

1250
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:21,040
it was

1251
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:24,400
a kind of uh not not so much with the

1252
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:26,720
the experiences itself i mean dr thomas

1253
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:27,599
bullard

1254
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,640
um noticed the the commonalities many

1255
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:32,640
many years back in a study he did

1256
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:34,720
thomas bullard was a i think he has a

1257
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:37,520
he's a doctor of folklore i believe

1258
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,800
so he noticed there was sort of

1259
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:41,200
repeating patterns uh within the

1260
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:43,119
abduction experiences

1261
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:44,720
the same patterns weren't in everyone

1262
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:46,000
but there was a there was there was

1263
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,839
commonalities across the board

1264
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,839
irrespective of where it was which

1265
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:52,000
country it was and so on

1266
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:54,480
but one of the things that kept getting

1267
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:55,520
reported to

1268
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:59,359
to myself here was a kind of a byproduct

1269
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:00,960
if you want martin

1270
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:04,560
and it was an artistic

1271
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:08,880
um by-product uh for example i mentioned

1272
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:11,920
john day john day was a

1273
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,480
was a was a what we call a chippy he was

1274
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,800
a woodworker you know house builder

1275
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:19,440
but he became him and his wife became

1276
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,640
interested after

1277
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,520
as a direct result of his encounter they

1278
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:25,440
became interested in all kinds of green

1279
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:26,240
issues

1280
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,000
which back in the 70s weren't really a

1281
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:29,760
big thing but

1282
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:33,280
his his skills as a joiner seemed to

1283
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:34,079
change

1284
00:44:37,990 --> 00:44:36,560
and took a more artistic route and when

1285
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:38,000
i interviewed john

1286
00:44:41,829 --> 00:44:40,079
he was making the most beautiful dolls

1287
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:41,839
houses i mean

1288
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:45,760
they were an absolute work of art and um

1289
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:47,839
another young man that i interviewed in

1290
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:51,280
in in wales and and again he was i mean

1291
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,880
he was a young guy when this happened he

1292
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,560
was only about 18 when it when the

1293
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,160
encounter happened

1294
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,319
and you know he liked his denim jacket

1295
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,400
his long hair and his rock music

1296
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:02,560
and he says phillip this is after this

1297
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:03,440
encounter

1298
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:05,599
he said please don't tell any of my

1299
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:06,640
friends

1300
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,760
i started writing poetry

1301
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:11,520
and he said i would be at work he'd

1302
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,480
managed to find a job at a local hotel

1303
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:16,319
and he says you know i'll pick up a

1304
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:18,319
napkin in the hotel and i i have to

1305
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,000
write this poetry down

1306
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:22,720
and it was the poetry was all again

1307
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:24,880
related back to his encounter but with a

1308
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,880
sort of a green issue attached to it and

1309
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:28,160
and so on

1310
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:30,880
and another lady she's sadly no longer

1311
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:31,680
with us

1312
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:34,240
called elsie elsie elkinson she became

1313
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:35,200
interested in

1314
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:38,480
sort of spiritual healing uh and again

1315
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,119
she puts

1316
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,599
is a direct result back to when she had

1317
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,440
the encounter

1318
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,839
and and elsie was one of those that took

1319
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:46,800
the positives

1320
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:50,000
uh out of the the experience and

1321
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:52,240
um you know she became a spiritual

1322
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,400
healer having no previous

1323
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:56,160
interest in anything like this at all

1324
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,760
martin so

1325
00:46:01,109 --> 00:46:00,000
it didn't happen to everyone you know

1326
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:01,119
let's be fair and same with the

1327
00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:01,920
commonalities

1328
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:04,000
they don't happen to everyone but there

1329
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:05,359
seemed to be a little theme here

1330
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:07,200
agreeing issues or artistic

1331
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,960
issues that were either enhanced

1332
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:13,680
from what they previously had or you

1333
00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:14,079
know

1334
00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:15,920
just came out of the blue you didn't

1335
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:18,640
have them to begin with and hey presto

1336
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:21,200
as a direct result of this i can now do

1337
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:21,839
this well

1338
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:24,400
i'm interested in this on i'll try this

1339
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,520
what that means

1340
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:27,680
what it doesn't mean your guess is as

1341
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:29,119
good as mine martin but it's

1342
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:31,440
it's certainly intriguing absolutely a

1343
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:32,800
lot of times you hear about

1344
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:36,000
repeat abductions is that this case over

1345
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,400
there

1346
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:39,119
as well a lot of them are oh indeed

1347
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:39,760
martin

1348
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,920
yes i mean again i mentioned a lady

1349
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:43,200
called jane there

1350
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:45,680
um jane's encounters started at the age

1351
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,200
of 16.

1352
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:49,680
um and we're ongoing i mean you know i

1353
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:51,680
didn't know jane when she was 16 i met

1354
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:52,960
many years later

1355
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:55,280
and things would happen you know on a

1356
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,880
regular basis

1357
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:59,119
and i was fortunate she didn't live too

1358
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:00,800
far from where i did so she would you

1359
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:02,400
know ring me up and i was able to go and

1360
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:03,520
document them

1361
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:07,200
she had some um physical after effects

1362
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,880
if you like some scratches and things

1363
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,640
like this about her person

1364
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,079
and as far as i'm aware i mean i've

1365
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,760
moved away from that area now spasm

1366
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:15,359
where they may be ongoing i

1367
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:18,960
i really don't know but uh jane was able

1368
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,160
to come to terms with them

1369
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:22,480
you know and say well you know whatever

1370
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:23,520
this is

1371
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:25,920
uh it's not do me any real physical harm

1372
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:27,200
i can't prevent it

1373
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,160
i can't stop it so i'm i'm gonna run

1374
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,760
with it i'm gonna live with it

1375
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:34,000
um and it's and you know that was a way

1376
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:35,680
of her you know dealing with it

1377
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:37,119
on the other hand martin there are those

1378
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:38,720
it's just a complete one-off this

1379
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,440
happened

1380
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:41,920
it was a bolt from the blue i don't

1381
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:43,280
really want it down again

1382
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:44,960
i don't know what it was i mentioned the

1383
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:47,760
young man down in wales for example

1384
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:50,400
and uh i mean it really terrified him

1385
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,319
martin and i mean that was

1386
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:54,640
uh you know he didn't have any hypnosis

1387
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:57,839
he remembered every single word of it

1388
00:48:01,349 --> 00:48:00,079
and he was petrified and again i went

1389
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,359
back and interviewed him a couple of

1390
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:03,200
years after the event

1391
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,119
and was set outside the hotel where he

1392
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,960
was working and it was a nice summer's

1393
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,480
day we're talking about his friends his

1394
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:10,079
family's girlfriend fine

1395
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:12,079
soon we talked about this incident his

1396
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:14,480
whole demeanor changed he you know

1397
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,880
he didn't want to talk about it and and

1398
00:48:21,309 --> 00:48:18,000
i asked him when he said

1399
00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:21,319
philip he said i had to have

1400
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:24,960
hypnotherapy to take away the nightmares

1401
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,359
about

1402
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:27,839
it so not regressive hypnosis it

1403
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,960
frightened him that much he had

1404
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,319
nightmares about it

1405
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:32,319
uh and when i eventually wrote the book

1406
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,680
without consent uh i sent him a copy

1407
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,520
and i think he took him about five years

1408
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:39,200
before he brought up enough courage to

1409
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,079
read it

1410
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:42,000
um he would now you know married with

1411
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,520
his own family

1412
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:45,280
uh but that was a one-off so but we do

1413
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:46,720
get people like jane

1414
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:50,319
and it happens time and time again and

1415
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:52,079
you know jane was able to you know to

1416
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:53,520
come to terms with it and say well you

1417
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,920
know

1418
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,920
it's it's not really done me any harm

1419
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:57,599
can't figure it out but you know

1420
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:58,960
i'm gonna have to live with it i can't

1421
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:01,440
stop it so there doesn't seem to be a

1422
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:03,359
balance between which it is martin

1423
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:04,720
whether it's a one-off or

1424
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,400
it's a it's an ongoing thing and um but

1425
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:10,319
but yeah we do have multiple cases in

1426
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:13,359
the in the book once upon a missing time

1427
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,640
simply because you know of constraints

1428
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:18,559
on page size and all that you know word

1429
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:20,160
count and all this kind of thing

1430
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:22,880
i just made it as a one-off encounter

1431
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:23,359
and

1432
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:27,520
didn't want to

1433
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:29,680
to emphasize and then repeat i think we

1434
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:30,720
just made the book too

1435
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:33,760
long however um i've worked with

1436
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,559
i've worked with a um an actor friend of

1437
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:39,280
mine called nabil shaban

1438
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:42,400
here in england and we've we've written

1439
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:43,680
a screenplay

1440
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:45,440
based on the book and we've just

1441
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:47,920
shortened the title to missing time

1442
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:51,599
uh and although in there we we still

1443
00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:54,640
remain that there's just one encounter

1444
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:56,319
the difference the main one and the main

1445
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:58,319
differences is that the end

1446
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:59,920
when you think it's all over the

1447
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,680
encounters start up again or

1448
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,520
just about to start up again so you know

1449
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,520
we're giving a strong hint that you know

1450
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:07,119
these things are not a one-off

1451
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:10,240
it's ongoing um so it is different in

1452
00:50:14,230 --> 00:50:12,640
that respect to once upon a missing time

1453
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:14,240
but like i said in in the work of

1454
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,839
fiction i've just just kept it at one

1455
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,440
encounter and

1456
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:19,040
that seems to work well as when it comes

1457
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:20,720
to writing it down

1458
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:22,160
i know i'm asking for a lot of

1459
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:23,760
similarities between

1460
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:26,400
the us here and what happens there but

1461
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:27,520
you mentioned

1462
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:30,720
false pregnancies are a lot of

1463
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:34,079
the abduction accounts do they talk

1464
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:34,800
about

1465
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:37,440
the genital examination like you hear

1466
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:38,079
about

1467
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:43,760
yeah i mean you know again one of the

1468
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:46,079
the commonalities if you like

1469
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:50,160
was on it still is some kind of um

1470
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,440
physical aspect to the encounter a

1471
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:55,440
medical examination for want of a better

1472
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:55,920
word

1473
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:57,920
but a lot of people like jane will talk

1474
00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:00,240
about the smart baby dreams and and that

1475
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,599
kind of thing that's that's still a

1476
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:02,800
rarity

1477
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,760
and as far as so-called alien implants

1478
00:51:09,109 --> 00:51:07,680
are concerned again

1479
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,119
it's it's i don't think that's as

1480
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:11,520
widespread as as as perhaps you might

1481
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:13,599
find it in other parts of the world

1482
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:16,079
but again i i have come across people in

1483
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:17,040
fact

1484
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:19,359
just recently a lady contacted me about

1485
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,040
a member of her family who

1486
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:23,280
who thinks they may have some kind of

1487
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:24,240
implant

1488
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:26,960
uh and she first contacted dr ron julia

1489
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:28,400
in the united states

1490
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:30,400
who's sort of been a pioneer in this

1491
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:31,440
field

1492
00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:33,920
and i know i know roger very well and he

1493
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:35,359
said well i can't do anything from the

1494
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:36,480
united states

1495
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:37,760
perhaps you might like to speak to

1496
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:40,640
phillip um and again i i've put this

1497
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:42,160
particular lady in touch with somebody

1498
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,800
she lives

1499
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:44,240
hundreds of miles from where i do

1500
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:45,680
marching so i put her in touch with

1501
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:46,480
somebody

1502
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:49,520
uh nearer to where she lives who may be

1503
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,040
able to assist her so

1504
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:53,440
that's that's rare you know i don't know

1505
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:54,240
any of the

1506
00:51:57,510 --> 00:51:55,760
the intimate details unless you're just

1507
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:57,520
looking for some assistance

1508
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:59,440
and nothing i can do from from where i

1509
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,640
am at the moment

1510
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:02,640
so it seemed appropriate to get somebody

1511
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:04,000
who was a who lived

1512
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:07,119
nearer to her so again it's not common

1513
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,599
but

1514
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:09,839
it again it's not unknown yeah doctor

1515
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:10,800
roger learskin

1516
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,319
is a future guest on our show and i'm

1517
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:13,839
going to really drill him

1518
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:17,119
about a question i have about implants

1519
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:19,920
and that is if they can be removed isn't

1520
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:21,599
that the smoking gun if

1521
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:24,000
their technology is whatever these

1522
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:25,040
implants are

1523
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,880
uh you know it's a whole puzzle in

1524
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,359
itself well yeah i mean again

1525
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:32,000
in in the book once upon a missing time

1526
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:33,119
we don't

1527
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:36,160
directly mention implants but

1528
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:38,400
the subtle hints that there might be a

1529
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:40,000
something else happening you know there

1530
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:41,359
are marks about

1531
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:43,760
their bodies which has been reported

1532
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:45,200
again i mentioned jane

1533
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:47,760
uh you know she had various marks about

1534
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:50,000
her body after certain encounters so we

1535
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:51,599
hinted it but we don't mention it in

1536
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:52,640
your face

1537
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:54,640
um what i've tried to do in the story is

1538
00:52:57,990 --> 00:52:55,920
to let the reader use their own

1539
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:58,000
imagination martin i think you know

1540
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:59,920
i was brought up on on that kind of

1541
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:01,280
storytelling

1542
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:03,440
um so you you can read into things like

1543
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:04,880
that what you will

1544
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:07,680
um and it could also be coincidental you

1545
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:08,559
know maybe

1546
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:10,400
you know he's been at school he's had a

1547
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,839
you know an argument in the playground

1548
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:13,520
with a child and he's got a scratch that

1549
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,599
he didn't realize was there so

1550
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:17,359
if you if you think about you know the

1551
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:19,040
film close encounters there's a few red

1552
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:20,720
herrings in it like that perhaps there's

1553
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:21,920
an explanation for this

1554
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:24,800
or perhaps there's not you know so you

1555
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,319
may give it what you will

1556
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:28,400
but but going back to sort of real life

1557
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:30,640
cases i mean you know i'm sure roger

1558
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:33,119
will say yes it is the smoking gun

1559
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:36,800
and uh he has no doubt that these are

1560
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:38,800
the genuine article they're not of this

1561
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,000
earth

1562
00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:42,640
he has worked with others in the field

1563
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:44,480
and they've tried to get these analyzed

1564
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,839
here there and everywhere and i have the

1565
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:47,280
results of this

1566
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:49,359
um but it's not yet in the mainstream

1567
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:50,640
and you know

1568
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:53,119
i think roger will be in in if not

1569
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:53,920
already

1570
00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:56,160
uh not just roger others like daryl sims

1571
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:57,359
and one or two others will be looked

1572
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:59,680
upon as pioneers in this field

1573
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,839
uh and who knows you know where that may

1574
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,280
lead martin it's

1575
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:06,000
it's something i i i follow closely so

1576
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:08,000
going back to your book what what really

1577
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:09,520
inspired you to write

1578
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:12,480
a book of fiction i think the

1579
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:13,680
inspiration or the

1580
00:54:19,349 --> 00:54:16,880
uh the reason for for it martin was

1581
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:19,359
i still even to this day i get annoyed

1582
00:54:23,430 --> 00:54:20,400
by

1583
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:23,440
the skeptics who will you know try and

1584
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:24,160
emphasize

1585
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:26,720
that people who have these experiences

1586
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:29,359
the abductees as we will call them

1587
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:31,760
are some kind of fruitcake or they're

1588
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:33,040
after attention

1589
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:34,880
or they want to sell their story to the

1590
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:36,640
newspapers for money

1591
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:39,200
and so on but it's been my experience

1592
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:40,400
that

1593
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:45,839
me tremendously

1594
00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:47,599
i know he's no longer with us but philip

1595
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:49,280
class was a prime example of

1596
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:52,559
of of such scenarios and it's just not

1597
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:53,440
true

1598
00:54:57,270 --> 00:54:56,160
so the reason for writing a work of

1599
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:57,280
fiction

1600
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:00,559
uh was to say look this is based on

1601
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,680
factual material this is based on my own

1602
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:05,359
investigations that i've done down the

1603
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:07,119
years the files are here

1604
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,720
some of which have been published

1605
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:10,319
previously

1606
00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:13,280
but it's to emphasize that we still have

1607
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:15,440
a long way to go to finding the answers

1608
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,079
behind this phenomenon and i'll say in

1609
00:55:21,030 --> 00:55:19,440
the introduction

1610
00:55:22,710 --> 00:55:21,040
uh to the book if you're looking for

1611
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:22,720
answers to the abduction phenomena you

1612
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,640
will not find them in this book

1613
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:27,280
that's not what it's about it's about

1614
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:29,280
emphasizing that whatever this

1615
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,720
phenomenon is it can happen to you

1616
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:34,960
it can happen to me it can happen to

1617
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:37,520
anyone any time any place anywhere on on

1618
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:38,559
earth

1619
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,000
uh any and it's it's just one way of

1620
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:44,160
showing that how difficult it can be to

1621
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:45,200
cope with it

1622
00:55:49,109 --> 00:55:46,960
however there is light at the end of the

1623
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,119
tunnel there is people that can help you

1624
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:52,319
both professional i.e certain you know

1625
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:55,599
doctors and other areas of specialties

1626
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,400
and what i would call semi-professional

1627
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:00,160
or amateurs if you if you like

1628
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:03,359
that's me the ufo researcher that there

1629
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:04,079
is help

1630
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:07,280
there is understanding and only perhaps

1631
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:07,680
by

1632
00:56:14,829 --> 00:56:12,160
never expand our knowledge on it

1633
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:14,839
and there's nothing to fear but fear

1634
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,079
itself

1635
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:18,000
and and and that's the main point of

1636
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:19,280
this just to

1637
00:56:25,109 --> 00:56:22,559
put the abduction encounter

1638
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:25,119
the experience in in the light i believe

1639
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:26,480
it should be viewed in

1640
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:28,480
without any ridicule without any fun

1641
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:29,760
being poked today

1642
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:31,119
or they're all you know there are one or

1643
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:34,240
two light-hearted moments in the book

1644
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,319
a lot of people deal with trauma in a

1645
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:38,400
light-hearted way really it relieves the

1646
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,599
the angst if you like and um

1647
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:43,599
so i try and paint the abduction in in a

1648
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:45,200
positive light

1649
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:47,920
if if that's the right word and showing

1650
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:49,280
that you know

1651
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:52,400
that it's not all cooks and lunatics uh

1652
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:53,920
and there is something behind this

1653
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:55,280
phenomena there's something

1654
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:58,720
tangible there that has yet you know

1655
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:01,040
conventional science has has failed to

1656
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:02,400
get to grips with

1657
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:04,480
and uh you know it's a study that is

1658
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:06,720
still ongoing martin and and uh

1659
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:08,240
you know and it's one that still

1660
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:10,000
intrigues me i've been involved in ufo

1661
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:12,400
research for a long time well maybe i

1662
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:13,839
let myself sound really old

1663
00:57:20,549 --> 00:57:17,920
but but and it's still

1664
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,559
it still intrigues me to this very day

1665
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:21,599
um i mean

1666
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:24,240
again people from all walks of life

1667
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,000
report these incidents professional

1668
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:29,119
people you know housewives teachers

1669
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:32,240
police officers and you name it and

1670
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,200
and some of them have more to lose than

1671
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,760
they have to gain by by coming forward

1672
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:39,599
with these encounters

1673
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:41,839
so i think there's a very important

1674
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:43,760
phenomena here

1675
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:45,520
you know hopefully you know this will

1676
00:57:49,109 --> 00:57:47,119
add to the to the pool

1677
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:49,119
if you like that maybe help the

1678
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:50,799
understanding of it and see how people

1679
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:52,400
can cope with it

1680
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:54,640
who knows you know i'm i'm just a humble

1681
00:57:57,750 --> 00:57:56,319
ufo researcher martin and i'm just

1682
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:57,760
trying to do my best

1683
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:00,799
well uh i appreciate your work and your

1684
00:58:05,870 --> 00:58:03,680
website is beyond roswell.com

1685
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:05,880
and you can find the book at richard

1686
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,280
dolanpress.com

1687
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:09,040
thanks so much philip it's been a real

1688
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:10,640
pleasure to talk to you again

1689
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:12,240
the pleasure's all mine marty thank you

1690
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:13,680
very much

1691
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:15,520
so that's it for our show today thank

1692
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:16,880
you for listening

1693
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,559
also please don't forget to write us a

1694
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:20,160
review on itunes we could really use

1695
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:21,119
your help

1696
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:23,280
and if you can support us financially we

1697
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:24,880
have our subscribe button right on the

1698
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:25,680
side of our

1699
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:27,200
website and if you can help us out

1700
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:29,680
that's great music is provided by

1701
00:58:33,549 --> 00:58:32,400
carrie lloyd whitehouse thank you carrie

1702
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:33,559
that's

1703
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:35,520
kerryloydwhitehouse.com don't forget the

1704
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:37,599
experiencers speak

1705
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:40,000
which is very similar to this podcast

1706
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,839
and abductions experiences

1707
00:58:45,829 --> 00:58:43,760
that's going on in portland maine

1708
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:45,839
september 6th through the 8th hope to

1709
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:47,119
see you there it'd be fun to hang with

1710
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:47,680
you

1711
00:58:51,270 --> 00:58:50,160
we'll be back next week and remember